Speak of the devil
The Pope is concerned that we have all forgotten about eternal damnation. Why don't we talk about hell anymore?
March 27, 2007 3:30 PM | Printable version
A detail from Hell by Jake & Dinos Chapman. Photographer: Andy Butterton/PA
According to Pope Benedict the Catholic church needs to get back to basics and revive the mortal fear of fire, brimstone and eternal damnation that has been lost.
Addressing a Mass in Rome the Pope reminded the congregation that: "Jesus came to tell us everyone is wanted in paradise, and that hell, about which little gets said today, exists and is eternal for those who shut their hearts to his love."
On the subject of Satan, he assures us in the Ratzinger Report - a book published in the 80s - that the devil is not merely symbolic but "a powerful reality, a baneful superhuman freedom directed against God's freedom".
Why don't we talk about hell anymore?
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I no more talk about hell than I do any other myth.
I doubt the Pope believes in my paranoid fantasies - why should I believe in his?
Because we are no longer controlled by it. Ireland (the republic, not the north) was a strict Catholic state not too long ago and it was hell (no birth control, divorce etc). Religion no longer controls us.
We do, only now it's called 'Iraq'
limbus partum
Whilst promoting hell, the current pope has also recently banned the state of limbo, for many centuries the destination for the unbaptised and the before Christ being alive and then risen folk from the BC times.
Neither heaven nor hell, limbo was a little bit pleasant but not really unpleasant but I suppose that living in Maidenhead didn't have quite enough fear factor. Or wow factor.
DrJazz
Comment No. 497725
March 27 15:48
GBR I could be wrong on this but did Jesus ever mention hell?
In a word, yes.
My view is that we don't talk about hell any more because we don't need to believe in it any more. Our lives are comfortable.
500 years ago, if my someone stole my pig, it would probably mean hunger and malnutrition for me and my family. There was no police to call, no insurance to claim, no welfare state to fall back on. Imagining the thief being tortured for eternity would have been the only compensation available.
I see just about all the responders so far are from Britain. Over here in the US, hell is very much part of the conversation. The evangelicals are very clear on the point that people who do not accept Jesus as their saviour are doomed to eternal damnation.
Thus we have literally millions of people who are convinced that George W. Bush has a place set aside for him in heaven, while the Dalai Lama, for example, faces an eternity of fire and brimstone.
Makes perfect sense, right? Eh? Oh.
Yes it is funny how the the Vatican can get rid of 'Limbo' when it suits them. What next will they change to 'buy' more followers?
You're all soooo wrong!
Isn't it obvious? It's a liberal conspiracy! It's in the Book of Revelations, people! As Kenny Brocklestein might say.
Ahem. On a serious note, I daresay The Enlightenment's got a lot to do with it.
"500 years ago, if my someone stole my pig, it would probably mean hunger and malnutrition for me and my family. There was no police to call, no insurance to claim, no welfare state to fall back on. Imagining the thief being tortured for eternity would have been the only compensation available."
More to the point, it was one of the only deterrents. Most people of that era were largely illiterate and as thick as pigshit mixed with cornflour. The only person with any semblance of an education that they ever came into contact with was the village priest/vicar/Godrep (Think Ned Flanders with B.O. and an attitude). It stands to reason that if these 'Holymen' said you would take a trip across the Styx for 'Pigthievery' then you would take the threat pretty seriously.
Education for the masses. Worst thing that ever happened to this bleedin' country. Still, it's looks to finally be in decline...
Hell is a medical condition, and its other name is piles.
I don't talk about hell becuase as an Arsenal and England fan i'm GOING through hell RIGHT NOW! :-{
Biskieboo
I sympathise with your illness. The fact, however, that belief in a Christian God has helped you is not evidence for its existence. If a Roman depressive were cured by a discovery of belief in Jupiter it would not prove anything about that god either.
It is interesting that you are so far the only person to have defended hell on this blog. Even PeterNW1 is not prepared to do so, and I'd been banking on him. If you're still reading, PeterNW1, I hope you'll excuse me for using you below as a paridigm that goes some way to answering the question posed by the initial post. That is - why do so few people (the pope, the fundamentalists and the fearful excluded) any longer believe in hell.
Intelligent Christians are embarrassed by the notion of hell, as they are by all literalist readings of scripture. This means that articulate theists like PeterNW1 and Andrew Sullivan (see above) feel perfectly at liberty not to accept orthodox teachings on things like hell and homosexuality. Once religious people allow themselves the luxury of reflection and rational thought, they realise the sheer silliness of much religious teaching. This leads them to accept the teachings they do like and reject those they don't. The consequence of this luxury (won at great cost by enlightenment pioneers) is that unpleasant orthodoxy is marginalised. Hence the death of hell.
Biskieboo
Theists assert the existence of a deity. They then ask those who question the truth of this claim to prove they are wrong. You are right that the assertion cannot be disproved. You should be aware, however, that no assertion of this kind can be disproved. I claim the existence of fairies at the bottom of my garden. You cannot disprove it. Does you inability to prove me wrong mean that I then have as good a claim to the truth as you? Of course not. It is highly unlikely that fairies exist just because a non-believer cannot prove they don't. Claims about god - any god - are on exactly the same level.
Your faith has obviously helped you. Its utility has no bearing on the truth, however.
The utility of hell, to return to the general subject, is to frighten people into conformity. This unpleasant pope is looking to exploit it.
englandismdotcom
"Whilst promoting hell, the current pope has also recently banned the state of limbo, for many centuries the destination for the unbaptised and the before Christ being alive and then risen folk from the BC times."
Nice for the pope to abolish Limbo. Why doesn't he just abolish hell while he's at it and we can all go to Heaven? Because he would put himself out of a job?
Who needs hell when you can live in this rotten world. Mind you at least we would not have to worry about paying the heating bill.
Comment No. 497696
March 27 15:39
GBR